Texas Democrat in Illinois says he’d leave again if Abbott calls 2nd session
The Texas House of Representatives issued arrest warrants for the 51 Democrats who fled the state last week. The move was to prevent the legislature from approving a newly gerrymandered congressional map.
The Democrats plan to spend the next two weeks in Illinois to deny the body a quorum, or the minimum number of members needed to conduct official business.
Straight Arrow News spoke with State Rep. Venton Jones, D-TX, whose district covers Dallas. Jones discussed the strategy for stopping the new map, their plans if Gov. Greg Abbott calls a second legislative session and whether they abandoned their office as some allege.
Main points:
- When the lawmakers return to Texas, Abbott could call another special session. Jones said he would leave the state again if necessary.
- Jones said he’s prepared to defend himself in court if Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton or a district attorney sues to remove him from office.
- He admitted that leaving the state is extreme, but said it was necessary to counter extreme actions from Republicans.
- Jones said he has received extraordinary support from his constituents, people around Texas and across the country for fleeing to Illinois.
- He could be fined up to $8,000 for leaving the state during the special session.
- If Republicans gerrymander the Texas map, Democratic states will return the favor.
Here’s a transcript of the conversation, which has been edited for brevity and clarity:
Ray Bogan: Obviously, being in Illinois denies the legislature a quorum, but while you’re in Illinois, what other work are you and the Democratic lawmakers doing to achieve your goal of blocking the new map?
Venton Jones: We have been spending time meeting with other lawmakers in Illinois, New York and across this country, looking for better strategies for redistricting. If we really want to have conversations about redistricting and drawing better maps, let’s have that conversation. I think the challenges, particularly with the legislation in SB4, is this is a process that’s been forced down the throats of Texans and also Americans. And it’s not done because the data requires it. It’s being done because the president is demanding it and the governor and Republican leadership in the Texas House are acquiescing. And this is very dangerous because it’s just like opening Pandora’s box. Once this starts, we’re going to see this happen across this country. And that is what we’re fighting against. That’s what we do not want to see.
Bogan: So how long do you plan to stay in Illinois? Because as you know, the legislative session began on July 31 and it lasts 30 days. So are you going to be able to stay in Illinois until August 20th for the full 30 days?
Jones: We will be here for at least the next two weeks. And what we hope is that in future special sessions, we can begin to focus on the issues that are important to Texans right now – addressing flood relief, making sure that we make ends meet, literally the cost of groceries and investing in our public schools. There are so many things that we could be addressing right now that have real bipartisan solutions in place versus having the focus of this special session, which has only been, to date, on redistricting.
Bogan: If you go back to Texas and Governor Abbott immediately calls another special session, what do you do then?
Jones: We’ll cross that bridge when we get there. I don’t think the issue is calling a special session. The issue becomes this hyper focus on this premature redistricting. Again, not based on need, not based on data and not based on what Texans want. Because when we had our redistricting town halls across the country and also at the capital last Friday, an overwhelming majority of people present said no, that they did not want this happening and that they wanted to be able to control who their representatives are. If this were to come up again, we would have to be prepared to do this again.
Bogan: At some point you have to go back to Texas. So what can you do to achieve your goal beyond leaving the state?
Jones: One of the most important things that we can do is raise the alarm right now. Because what the White House and the governor has tried to do was to slide this in as a quick, fast process. We held hearings across the state. And then just over the weekend, this moved rapidly to the floor in which this was supposed to come up today. And so this process is just moving entirely too quickly.
Let’s call a spade a spade. This Republican power grab that’s happening because Republican policies that have been put in place have not been popular. Republicans feel that and they’re trying to respond.
Unfortunately, that’s happening on the backs of Black and Brown represented congressional districts that have been historically represented by people of color. And that’s important because that’s what these districts that are being ripped apart, that’s what they represent. In addition to the racial dynamic, just looking at representation of urban individuals versus rural. I have three of the overlapping congressional districts that will be impacted. And in addition to each one of the current representatives that have been drawn out of their districts, you’re seeing huge changes that’s bringing these urban areas that have been represented into rural spaces. So a person living in the city of Dallas, would possibly have to go to East Texas to see their representative. And that’s a huge problem. And that’s something that we can’t rush through. We’ve got to do this right if we’re going to do it.
Bogan: Governor Abbott wrote that he may try to remove and replace you and the other Democrats who fled the state. He cited the attorney general’s opinion, which relied heavily on the Texas Supreme Court’s 1873 decision, Honey v. Graham, which states, “abandonment is a species of resignation.”
But the court did make an important distinction – it said, failing to perform the duties of an office is not itself a form of abandonment. The lawmaker must intend to abandon or relinquish their duties.
So with that in mind, what was your intention when you left office? Did you leave with the intent to abandon?
Jones: No, neither me nor my colleagues have abandoned our jobs. We have been working since we have left to serve our constituents. What I have been receiving, an overwhelming majority from my constituents and people from across the state and around the country, are letters and emails of appreciation for standing up against this injustice that we see that is going on. So the governor is absolutely wrong in his assessment that we are forfeiting our duties. It’s actually quite the opposite. We’re doubling down and doing the work that we were sent to do by our constituents.
Bogan: Are you prepared to mount a defense if the Attorney General or a District Attorney try to sue you in an attempt to remove you?
Jones: Yes, absolutely. I think that you have to be ready for anything. And that’s exactly what we’re ready for. I’m just taking it one day at a time and just continuing to do the work I was called to do. It’s unfortunate that if we see the attorney general take these actions. But when you look at the state of Texas and the history of our attorney general and the decisions that they’ve made in their roles, you know that it’s corrupt. You know that things are being done in a self-serving way and just to fulfill a political agenda versus doing what’s right for Texans. And that’s what we need to be doing right now, serving the 31 million Texans.
And as we look at this, this is an extreme measure because we’re dealing with very extremist behaviors when it comes to how we are doing business in this state at this time.
Bogan: What’s your response to accusations that you derelict in your duty?
Jones: I don’t have to respond. My work speaks for itself. I continue to serve my constituents and do the work that I was sent to do. And so the only people that hold me accountable are my constituents. I am in communication with them, I have their support, and that’s what I’m going to continue to work on. I can’t worry about other people’s opinions. The work is still getting done. And we’re going to continue to do that.
But when it comes to specifically redistricting, if you look at the House floor today, the call that was made was only about this bill and not about the special session. And so one would ask – why is there such a hyper fixation on this bill? When we should be providing flood relief, there hasn’t been a single bill introduced to the body to be able to address that. We’ve been present for the last two weeks of the legislative session. Any time it could have been done, even the governor could have executed an executive order and still can to address flood relief. None of that is happening.
What you are seeing is the governor and Republican leadership who continue to politicize a horrific tragedy in order to gain political points for saying that we broke quorum and we’re not doing our duties. That was simply untrue, and we will continue to do the work necessary that we were sent to do by our constituents.
Bogan: You face a fine of $500 a day for failing to attend this session. So if you stay there for 16 days, you could be looking at an $8,000 fine. Are you expecting to formally be fined that amount of money? And if so, how would you pay for it?
Jones: I’m prepared for anything. And I just continue to navigate that every day. I’m not worried about the fines. I’m worried about doing the job that I was sent here to do and serve my constituents who desperately need that leadership right now as our democracy is under attack.
Bogan: You talked earlier in the interview about getting a better system nationwide for redrawing congressional districts. And you’re in Illinois right now, which is one of multiple Democratic states that have more than a 20-point difference between the vote that Republicans get statewide and the number of representatives they have in that state’s congressional delegation. So, for instance, if Republicans receive 40% of the votes statewide, they may only have 20% of that state’s congressional seats, which would indicate a big gerrymander. So, how would you solve a problem when clearly across the country, we already have so many states that are significantly gerrymandered?
Jones: I think right now, like this actually in and of itself is opening the Pandora’s box. And that is why there was such an issue with this because just like we’re seeing in Republican states, Democratic states are going to return in kind with these redistricting efforts, really putting our nation in a very chaotic predicament. And that is of great concern. But I’m proud of the Democratic lawmakers who are coming together to really work to protect democracy.
Ella Rae Greene, Editor In Chief
